Talk:The Tube (disambiguation)

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On 13 June 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from The Tube to The Tube (disambiguation). The result of the discussion was moved.

Untitled[edit]

Hmm... for 1, I would probably include the W&C in 'the tube', and I've never actually heard anyone call it 'the drain' (but I'm not a Londoner)... for 2, some people might claim this was less than NPOV :) Shaydon—Preceding undated comment added at 17:32, 31 May 2003 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it should be merged, but the question would be "should 'The Tube's contents be added to 'The Tube (Disambiguation)' or should 'The Tube (Disambiguation)'s contents be added to 'The Tube'" If 'The Tube (Disambiguation)' is added to 'The Tube' then 'Disambiguation' can be removed, whereas if 'The Tube' is added to 'The Tube (Disambiguation)', then the question becomes "Which 'Tube' is the most important to take the place of 'The Tube'? DISCUSS (86.29.20.214 17:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Requested move 13 June 2024[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 08:44, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Tube → The Tube (disambiguation) – Move dabpage, and make The Tube a primary redirect to London Underground. 162 etc. (talk) 00:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisted. Renerpho (talk) 01:58, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The list currently has a MOS:DABCOMMON list on top pointing to the London Underground meaning, and to Television. Clickstreams, on the other hand, say the following:

Some recent outgoing clickstreams from The Tube

From meta:Research:Wikipedia clickstream archive:

clickstream-enwiki-2020-11.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 162
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 46
The_Tube Cathode-ray_tube link 16
total: 224 to 3 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2022-05.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 215
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 27
The_Tube Cathode-ray_tube link 14
total: 256 to 3 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-07.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 154
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 17
total: 171 to 2 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-08.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 136
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 17
The_Tube Television link 11
total: 164 to 3 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-09.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 139
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 33
total: 172 to 2 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-10.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 124
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 25
total: 149 to 2 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-11.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 133
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 48
The_Tube Television link 10
total: 191 to 3 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2023-12.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 108
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 24
total: 132 to 2 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-01.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 133
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 54
total: 187 to 2 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-02.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 106
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 15
The_Tube The_Tube_(2012_TV_series) link 14
total: 135 to 3 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 115
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 27
The_Tube The_Tube_(2003_TV_series) link 10
total: 152 to 3 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-04.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground other 90
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) other 21
The_Tube The_Tubes other 14
The_Tube The_Tube_(2003_TV_series) other 11
The_Tube The_Tube_(2012_TV_series) other 10
total: 146 to 5 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-05.tsv:

The_Tube London_Underground link 42
The_Tube The_Tube_(TV_series) link 16
total: 58 to 2 identified destinations

Looks like practically nobody ever clicks the Television link, and the rest of the distinction is between London Underground and various entertainment items, mostly the music show from the '80s and a couple of documentaries about London Underground. There probably wouldn't be a huge loss if we short-circuited towards the topic of most long-term significance here, at the same time, this has been disambiguated since the initial revision in 2001[1], with very little acrimony. It looks like people recognize it as an ambiguous phrase. The derived term YouTube existing probably affects this as well. I'm not sure. --Joy (talk) 08:53, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The main problem with the above analysis is that all the incoming wikitraffic from other articles to this page comes from London Underground[2]. So what appears to happen is that people come from the London Underground to here and then back again. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:42, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This indeed seems to confirm that readers are associating London Underground, not another article, with "The Tube". 162 etc. (talk) 16:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@162 etc. it was probably from the redirect of "the tube" over there, and the hatnote that existed on top of London Underground for some reason. This redirect has actually mostly pointed here since 2006, but tried to be retargeted three times in the last year, twice by some vandalism-only accounts, though. --Joy (talk) 06:29, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, both The tube and The Tube should be primary redirects to London Underground. It's clear to me that this is what readers are seeking, not the disambiguation page. 162 etc. (talk) 14:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@162 etc. but if we see clicks on the hatnote at LU, how can it possibly be clear that they were in the right place? They were in the right place, but didn't realize it, and then went back, and then we're sure they were in the right place? This makes little sense. Something is off in this scenario. --Joy (talk) 16:34, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like little over one hundred clicks a month. Could be simply users intrigued by the hatnote. Regardless, the numbers are small. Polyamorph (talk) 14:57, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per detailed research by Joy and per Celia Homeford. English Wikipedia has not redirected "The Tube" to "London Underground" for nearly 23 years. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:35, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose London Underground has 39,189 views but the 1982 TV series has 1,713 views, the 2003 one has 143 and the 2012 one has 93[[3]] so given few people are likely to use "The Tube" I don't think its likely primary by usage though it might be by long-term significance as the 2003 and 2012 TV series are based on the London Underground but the 1982 one doesn't appear to be. Yes I'd think of the London Underground first when I hear this name but that may not be the case outside England. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:43, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. What? I don't understand the above opposes whatsoever. The Tube clearly and unambiguously refers to the London Underground as its primary meaning, by both of the WP:PTOPIC criteria, common usage and long-term significance. Indeed, I am WP:ASTONISHed that a search for that term would yield any other outcome. The Wikinav stats confirm this, with 60-70% of clicks going to that page. This move needs to go ahead ASAP. — Amakuru (talk) 12:01, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Amakuru a bit of an issue there is that the largest incoming source of traffic at "The Tube" is in fact London Underground, so this could be a sign that we have something in our navigation that confuses readers into going back and forth, and the stats we're looking at aren't showing us the real picture.

There used to be a redirect the tube that went there and a hatnote that linked here. This was retargeted directly here on 13 June, so we don't know yet if it'll affect those statistics. There seems to be a steady amount of traffic there, too.[4]

--Joy (talk) 14:36, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support – nah, I agree with Amakuru, the wikinav stats are compelling enough to support a move. Sceptre (talk) 01:50, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Relisted to generate a clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Renerpho (talk) 01:58, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Just a slang term for a television, but the common name of the London Underground and a clear primary redirect. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:42, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The transit system's article describes it in the lead as a nickname. The distinction between a common slang term for something that exists globally, and a common nickname for something that exists in a single metropolis, is a bit too subtle for things to be actually clear. --Joy (talk) 16:42, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A nickname and a slang term are not the same thing. Nobody is going to search for an article on television by entering "the tube", but they certainly would search for the London Underground using that term as it's universal. It's what almost everyone calls it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 17:05, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, it can be universal among readers already acquainted with it, but this doesn't help correlate their numbers to the numbers of actual universal readers. The encyclopedia is general, it's not oriented towards any particular group of commuters, train or transport enthusiasts, or TV and music show afficionados, or any others. --Joy (talk) 21:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can guarantee that pretty much every single one of the 66 million people in the UK knows what the Tube is! And doubtless millions of others around the world. Knowledge of this term certainly isn't restricted to a single city or a single set of enthusiasts. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:35, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I used the London Underground this week and last week and I can't recall I've ever heard it called "The Tub" at least not out of context. Saying "The Tube" should point to the London Underground is like saying The Island should redirect to Isle of Wight which is locally commonly called "The Island". I think people looking in an enclcopedia might well be more likely to be looking for the films as they are actually called "The Tube". Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:51, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The Tube" as a shortform for London Underground is commonly used in reliable secondary sources. [5][6][7] 162 etc. (talk) 18:04, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All three of these links you pasted are either based in London or oriented towards a UK audience, so that doesn't help with the global vs local distinction I mentioned above. --Joy (talk) 21:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fine then, here's CNN and PBS. "The Tube" is in no way some sort of obscure local slang. 162 etc. (talk) 18:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support The London Underground is clearly primary by both usage and long term significance. Polyamorph (talk) 14:36, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.