Talk:Turkish language

Aşık Veysel Translation

I'd like to offer the following tweaked translation of the Veysel poem at the end of the article to replace the existing one, which I believe more accurately reflects the poet's choice of words, especially with the use of "dear friends" (dost), rather than "friends" (arkadaş):

<poem> I depart, my name remains May dear friends remember me Weddings happen, holidays arrive May dear friends remember me

The soul does not stay caged; it flies away The world is an inn; its visitors depart The moon wanders, the years pass by May dear friends remember me

The soul will depart the body The chimney won't smoke, the hearth won't burn Armfuls of greetings upon you all May dear friends remember me

Myriad flowers bloom and fade Many have laughed, many will laugh Wishes are lies, Death is real May dear friends remember me

Morning, afternoon turn to night Oh, the things that happen to us! Veysel departs, his name remains May dear friends remember me <poem>

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.67.219.194 (talk • contribs) 5:46, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 July 2022

The graph purportedly showing the origin of the words in Turkish vocabulary should be removed for not complying with WP:OR and for utilizing a flawed methodology.

Origin of the words in Turkish vocabulary, which contains 104,481 words, of which about 86% are Turkish and 14% are of foreign origin

Also, this sentence from the text should be removed too: "The 2005 edition of Güncel Türkçe Sözlük, the official dictionary of the Turkish language published by Turkish Language Association, contains 104,481 words, of which about 86% are Turkish and 14% are of foreign origin."

The cited source does not say that 86% of words are Turkish.

See my discussion here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:TurkishVocabulary.png#Flawed%20methodology 3512495a (talk) 09:05, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done There does appear to be glaring issues with the pie chart. First, it's a synthesis of two sources: https://web.archive.org/web/20070301064559/http://www.tdk.gov.tr/TR/BelgeGoster.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF1A46C5FBFA979D0C and https://web.archive.org/web/20070321023726/http://www.tdk.gov.tr/TR/BelgeGoster.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EFB40CE59E171C629F. Neither state or imply that they are related to each other. Second, languages are far more complicated than this. A proper linguistic paper analysis is required to include something similar. The Turkish Language Association is not sufficient for me.

I am going to remove this image and related content from articles, pointing to this thread. SWinxy (talk) 04:13, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

@SWinxy thanks for doing the hard part for me! I tagged the pie chart last night but I must have fallen asleep and forgot to clean up everything else. And thanks for the tip @3512495a. SamuelRiv (talk) 04:44, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Which is meant: “ol(mek)”, “-ol(mek)”, or “(-)imek”?

The word-accent section states in a table that both “-ol (as a separate word)” (sic!) and “-ol (as a suffix)” force word stress to fall on the preceding syllable. Yet the examples show the forms “idi” and “-dı” respectively.

First, I propose that separate words not be preceded by “-“.

Second, I wonder whether “(-)ol” and “idi” and “-dı” are from the same verb. I have read on en.wiktionary.org that “imek” is a defective verb, but not that it belongs to “olmek”.

Can someone knowledgeable commenton this?Redav (talk) 12:33, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Türkiye Türkçesi

I know "Turkey Turkish" or "Turkish of Turkey" isn't frequently used in English. I don't how to to place this name to the lead. Should we say "also referred to as 'Turkey Turkish'/'Turkish of Turkey' (Türkiye Türkçesi) by Turks. That's how Turkish Language Association calls the language, Türkiye Türkçesi. We can not neglect that. Beshogur (talk) 16:27, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm mot sure if it's ledeworthy, but definitely deserves a mention here. I can confirm that at least in German scholarship, the term Türkeitürkisch is occasionally used—and not necessarily by people who subscribe to the pan-Turkic myth that the Turkic languages are just dialects of a single Turkish language (e.g. by the former resident Turcologist at my alma mater). –Austronesier (talk) 19:44, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Nonsense. The Turkish language is one of the languages from the Turkic family. It's absurd that calling Turkish as Turkey Turkish, because Turkish is just for Turkey. The term Turkic would be more correct. Moonpulsar (talk) 19:50, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

That's incorrect. Turkic is a recent term in English. There are other "Turkish" like Azeri/Azerbaijani Turkish, Khorasani Turkish, etc. Beshogur (talk) 17:12, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

The word "Türkçe" in Turkey is used in two senses. The first is "Turkish language", the second is "Turkic language". "Türkiye Türkçesi" actually means Turkey Turkic language. Another example is "Azerbaycan Türkçesi" Azeri Turkic language. 88.243.159.186 (talk) 13:52, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

@Beshogur: Why did you undo my {{citation needed}} tag? Sure, sources exist, but they need to be cited in the article. Please add a citation. I would do it myself but I don't know enough about Turkish to assess any source. For the meantime, I'm reinstating the tag. — W.andrea (talk) 16:26, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

@W.andrea: [1] you clearly see it here. There is no reason for citation for an alternative name. Also I opened this "discussion" to further clarify what it is. Türkiye Türkçesi as it is, is the official name by the Turkish Language Association. Did you even read above? Beshogur (talk) 17:04, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

There is no reason for citation for an alternative name. The reason I tagged it in the first place is because I wanted to know more about the terminology. For me, as someone who doesn't know much about Turkish, it seems strange to call it "Turkish of Turkey", because what other "Turkish" is there? But after some reading, it seems like some people consider closely related languages like Azeri to be dialects of Turkish. So, I was looking for an authoritative source on the terminology instead of just my reading between the lines. In any case, as the page I linked says:

Readers must be able to check that any of the information within Wikipedia articles is not just made up. This means all material must be attributable to reliable, published sources. Additionally, quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by inline citations.

I'd consider this to be like a quotation since it's a particular term.

Lastly, please don't be rude; I did read the above. I'm not questioning that the term is used, just asking for a source -- which has now been added by Kansas Bear, great!

— W.andrea (talk) 17:36, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

For me, as someone who doesn't know much about Turkish, it seems strange to call it "Turkish of Turkey" why dyor? And I explained on talk. I agree that it's strange in English, but had to be included. Beshogur (talk) 17:42, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

We should keep the Turkish term and its English equivalent strictly apart when considering due weight. Türkiye Türkçesi is undoubtedly often used in Turkish, and "Turkish of Turkey" is the correct translation of it. But in English, "Turkish of Turkey" is not really often used. Yes, there are attestations, but a) not many (390 in Google Scholar) and b) a good part of these (139 in Google Scholar) have the article "the". As for the latter, "the Turkish of Turkey" can either be understood in the pan-Turkic (no ideological undertones implied!) sense (thus entirely equivalent to Türkiye Türkçesi), but also in contrast to "the Turkish of Albania", "the Turkish of Bulgaria" etc. thus referring to regional varieties that fall into the scope of "Turkish" in the modern English (i.e. narrow) sense.

For these reasons, I think that having "Turkish of Turkey" in bold face might be undue for the lede definition. I'd suggest:

• Turkish (Türkçe (), Türk dili; also Türkiye Türkçesi 'Turkish of Turkey')...

Thoughts? –Austronesier (talk) 14:46, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Why are so many users keep reverting the version every time I add the more detailed map

Like please, stop reverting back to the old map that is shaded by country, the map I added is based on linguistic disturbution, which is more accurate than a language shaded by country 2600:1700:6730:E380:5D9A:83A9:6014:BA26 (talk) 22:26, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Denmark Is the Danish Capital. Tokyo is the Japanese of Japan the time to get a is the Japanese of Japan. Michigan and Hawaii so it seems. 2607:FB91:1793:63CF:C56A:910F:2CB7:84B2 (talk) 16:16, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Is this modern Turkish?

"Where are you going?" is translated as "Nereye gidersin bre?" I lived 15 years in Turkey and I can't remember that I ever heard this "bre". I asked Turkish friends and their opinion was that it may be used by people coming from the Balkan and that it meant "Where are you going, brother?" That means that the word came from an Indo-European language. That may be or not. In your article it is connected with "be" and "bire". "be" may be used like a exclamation mark at least in modern Turkish (not often used) and bire looks like "for one". The word is not mentioned in Osmanlica Türkce by Mustafa Nihat Özön, 5th edition, Istanbul 1995. The normal word for brother in Turkish is kardes and in Ottoman Turkish "birader" was sometimes used, probably a loan from Persian. But at least "nereye gidersin bre?" is not normal in modern Turkish. Keetjan (talk) 21:43, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Classification section

In the classification section, there is a short video clip whose caption reads: "A Turkish speaker from Kosovo." We urgently need the video's premise, e.g. whether it's a news broadcast or something else, and a synopsis of what is being said. That clip cannot remain up the way it is now. It could be proclaiming anything. -The Gnome (talk) 19:32, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Removed. In case anyone finds its inclusion necessary, they would have to provide full & exact translation. Wikipedia does not abide random information. -The Gnome (talk) 20:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Attributive verbs table - help

In the table where it gives the "case of relative pronoun", the pronoun itself, and example sentences in Turkish, with English literal and actual translations, I am confused about whether it is meant that some fields are empty. Is it meant for the section under "case of relative pronoun" is empty for most of the rows? F.ex. there are a number of empty boxes under the "genitive" box. If these are meant to be attributed to the genitive case, then these boxes should be combined so that the genitive case is logically applied to the following rows as well. If not, some explanation should be given. I'm not well read at all vis-a-vis Turkish nor its grammar, so this table is a tad confusing. Thanks in advance! St.Marie-made (talk) 08:32, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Proposed merger

I propose merging Longest word in Turkish into Turkish language. I think that the content in the former most naturally fits within the context of the latter, and it seems irregular to me that an article exists solely for what amounts to a hypothetical (even if actually printed, though apparently only for the purpose of proving it can be done) extension of the subject matter of what I consider the master article. Specifically, I would place the "longest word" section within the "Vocabulary" heading, and condense any duplicative or extraneous material. Comments? Al Begamut (talk) 21:37, 30 May 2024 (UTC)