Talk:Gandhara

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Gandhara article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 30 days

Pakistan Mid‑importance

	Pakistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Afghanistan Mid‑importance

	Afghanistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.AfghanistanWikipedia:WikiProject AfghanistanTemplate:WikiProject AfghanistanAfghanistan articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Central Asia Mid‑importance

	Asia portal Gandhara is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Tibet, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang and Central Asian portions of Iran, Pakistan and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.Central AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Central AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Central AsiaCentral Asia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

India: History Mid‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Indian history workgroup (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article was last assessed in September 2021.

Former countries

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles

Buddhism Mid‑importance

	This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Buddhism. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page for more details on the projects.BuddhismWikipedia:WikiProject BuddhismTemplate:WikiProject BuddhismBuddhism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hinduism Mid‑importance

	Hinduism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

[Untitled]

We could do with a link to and explanation of Kharoṣṭhī mahābāla 09:44, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

How sharp is the distinction between Kharosthi and other Indic scripts? I mean, they're all ultimately descended from semitic scripts, right? -- कुक्कुरोवाच|Talk‽ 17:04, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[Sentence Needs Correcting]

Hi there. On this page, some barely literate monkey has written the sentence "During the reign of Xerxes I, Gandharan troops were noted by Herodotus to of taken part in the." I couldn't find that sentence in all the funny symbols and such, since I'm in no way at all familiar with HTML. Could someone who both (A) knows what they're doing and (B) is capable of writing in English, at the level of an adult of normal intelligence, please banish the mark of stupidity hovering over us, by correcting this sentence? Thanks in advance to any such people/ person.

Please note the Valley of Kashmir and its vicinity has nothing to do with Ghandhara. While Ghandhara and Kashmir have interacted in the past both are distinct regions and Kashmir has never been referred to as a region of Ghandhara.

Kharosthi script was a contemporary of Brahmi script (the root of the various Indic scripts). You can compare their respective glyphs at [1], [2]. Kharosthi is not thought to derive from Brahmi, nor Brahmi from Kharosthi. Both appear to trace back to the Aramaic alphabet. technopilgrim 00:17, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

First statue of buddha

I watched a documentary on TV recently. It said that based on the relics unearthed in 2002, the scientists believe the oldest statues of buddha were invented due to Greek influence in the Gandhara area. Some earlier stone carvings even have Greek gods surrounding Buddha. Buddhists didn't use statue before that.

I also watched another documentary on TV about some legends in this area that may explained where Jesus was before age 30. The theory seems to imply that Jesus learned and preached Buddhism. Could Christianity have a Buddhist root?

It would be nice to have some external links to these new findings and theories. Kowloonese 00:52, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

Yes actually thats very possible because it is recorded in Hindu texts that Jesus was in India. Christianity had a lot of Hindu/Buddhist influences.

Grammar and Citations

This page (the Gandhara article) requires a thorough grammar clean up and also desperately needs citations for many of its claims.

vandalism,

it is not true saying Pashtuns were inhabitent of Gandhara since they are and were known as Afghans for 1000 of years. The term Pashtuns drives form the Persian word Posht-on which means those on the back(side). Unlike Gandharis Afghans name drives from Ashvakan and they were nomads while Gandharis were cultivater, folk of civilization. The name Gandhara was also not used for ever. It was developed very late. When Persian flooded Gandhara the name tunred into Parswar (Area of Persians) and today it is known as Peshawar. The people of Gandhara were first vedic speaking like the rest of northeastern aryan world. The Pakhas, Pakhats or Paktas (Herodot mention them as Pactyans) were vedic and their original name was Pakhas, Pakhat or Paktas that´s what we find in the Veda about them. Gandahra has nothing to do with pagan Ashvakans or their descneds, the Pashtuns (Aughans).

Please stop the anti-pashtun hate or you will be reported. The word Gandahara does not come from "Parswa" or the persians as you claim. It derives from the word "Purushupara" which is Sanskrit in origin. Also, the Pactyans were not vedic, they were a eastern iranic people confined to the east of Afghanistan and are no doubt believed to be the ancestors of modern day Pashtuns along with the Bactrians. Also the word "Afghan" only came into existence during the 2nd century AD which is very recent.

End dates

Gandhara, as a historical region ended in 6th century after invasions by Alchon Huns. So, I can't understand reason to extend it till 11th century.

Lead discussion

Talk topic to discuss lead section. @Sutyarashi Zenithxxx (talk) 12:14, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The current lead summarises all of the key historical points of Gandhara perfectly in not massive detail and is organised as a general summary -> Summary of Culture -> Summary of history paragraphs and after checking the difference in length between the original and the new lead, the original is only around 30+ words more than the new so I personally do not see the new lead which was reverted as a better version Zenithxxx (talk) 12:19, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, your version is not better at all. It is full of unnecessary details, verbosity ("The historical narrative of Gandhara commences", "garnered recognition", "renown for triumphing", "expansionary endeavors"), factoids of little historical value or even revisionism/ failing verification, like labelling Apracharajas as a Gandharan kingdom or ascribing Chanakya a Gandharan origin, all while citing poor quality sources. So you need to explain how it is better than the previous lede. I haven't gone through rest of article, but I don't expect it to be any better. WP:ONUS, WP:LEDE and WP:RS would be relevant policies in this regard for you. Sutyarashi (talk) 12:29, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, the uneccesary details can be changed to more simple vocabulary which isn't a call for reverting the whole lead. Secondly the sources I have cited are all from credible historians from credible education departments for instance 'Ascribing Chankya as Gandharan origin all while citing poor quality sources' is untrue and a simple view of the author and the text would prove it. Thomas Trautman is not an unreliable author and has graduated from the University of Michigan and University of London in history all whilst also specialising in Indic history. Secondly the Aprcharajas were a Gandharan dynasty because that was where the dynasty was established and was centered.

Therefore Im going to revert it back but Ill take your points of unnecessary detail into consideration and apply them when I revert. Zenithxxx (talk) 13:13, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also my revert is 3rd revert now, so if you want to revert now lets discuss it on here what we can improve and what you disagree with, if not we can get a 3rd opinion and also go to the Dispute resoluation noticeboard Zenithxxx (talk) 14:26, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]